I find it really amusing that the company took the "cover model suggestion" on charging for their pictures. NO CRAP that they are going to want paid from it... but I'm sorry not one of those skanky idiots is worth the 250-300$ a PICTURE that I heard they are asking! If the company is built around the CM's as their "lords" then the COMPANY should be paying the CM's the EXORBITANT amount of money they are trying to get out of these authors. I don't think any of the authors at DCL are making enough one one book a quarter to even partially justify spending that much money!

Anyone who is PAYING for the privilege to have those guys on a cover is insane... especially when the company is built around them.
 

Exactly. My thoughts to the tee. I met way too many of those dudes at RT. One of them was so stoned out of his skull, he didn't react when a lady plowed right into him. The others were WAY too handsy with the women--not an admirable trait--and a couple are just too young and greasy. Let's not mention the one OLD guy who seriously needs a hot oil treatment for his seriously discolored long hair.

I wouldnt' want to pay for a cover with a 'lord' on it. They looks like Lords all right...Dark Trailer Park Lords. AS the first poster said, it's not exactly ethical to have a 'themed' website/business, then expect your 'employees' to pay for using the theme, which is the only reason they are working for you to begin with. Most ebook authors can't afford to pay $10 for a cover, much less $200+.

Someone from the DCL loop shared an email about a challenge to the person who posted about cover art?

Dude, those covers look like, well, bad ebook covers. I guess some people's standards are very different, but I always thought a publisher would want to excell in every area. GO look at the covers at Samhain Publishing or Liquid SIlver or Tease. Most of them are print-worthy, as in, if you saw it in Wal-mart, you wouldn't roll your eyes and laugh at the man-titties or 80's throwback hair.

Yes, the romance model site IS a way to get the models a leg-up. BUt charging your authors for use of the very theme the publisher is built around? Um, bad choice. And from waht I hear, it's mandatory, not 'something being discussed'. If you want to help the models out with the site, that's one thing. Open it up so anybody in the romance industry can buy the pictures. Charging ONLY your authors won't make you or them any money.

Stuart, proofread, dude. If you're going to post a defense, you should REALLY spell your words correctly. Watch those 'of's and 'off's.
 

or the "where"s and "were"s.
 

As you said, the DCL covers aren't the best quality. A lot of the time it just looks like the guy was placed in the picture not made part of the picture, and nothing was done to make it all flow. I understand they are very proud of their covers and their models, but really I just see this as a way for middle aged women to get all grab assy with a bunch of "hot" guys that normally wouldn't look at them twice. Im not sure thats true, but as a reader i have stayed away from DCL books because of the CM's and the emphasis on them. It does nothing for me but turn me off.
 

Just a note to say please do speak your minds, but politely. Thanks.
 

Have you taken a look at the crap being put on covers by other epress publishers?

Has anybody even looked at certain other publishing companies who use one shot from a model over and over and pay the model maybe?

I am a customer of DCL and I have never had a problem purchasing novels or getting my downloads.
 

Just because there are worse covers out there doesn't mean DCL's are good.

And purchasing the novels and getting the downloads doesn't make them good, either.
 

Can I ask why it is necessary to be quite so nasty? "Skanky idiots"? Really? These are models that have been on covers you've bought for years, why now are they so horrible?

You say some of the models are too young, yet criticize another as being too old. You criticize the hair that is seen on the majority of historical romance novels. You criticize Stuart's spelling when you make errors in your posts and overuse the word "dude". I'm very sorry but I have seen many sad excuses for covers on Samhain and Liquid Silver.

I think Emily was just trying to put forth some concers. I will say I have suspicions of the author(s) raising complaints. However, this is turning into some juvenile cat-scratch party and I have a few suspicions about some of these posters as well. Since none of the posters with particularly ugly things to say felt it necessary to own up to their identities, neither do I.
 

I suspect this has been building up a while, so the first place the issue vents will tend to steam up a bit.

But I also hope this can develop into a discussion of the substantive issues about authors might consider, or not consider, a serious problem with an epress.
 

I have no ties to DCL. And I don't have any plans to create any. To me, it's just another e-pub with some cheesy covers.

I don't post my identity because that's one of my rights. I don't know what a 'concer' is, by the way. I think every publisher has their share of bad covers. Luckily, most seem to be progressive and are working to change the 'ebook' impression a lot of the covers give. Looking at the DCL covers, I have to agree with the first poster that the models look like they are just placed on top of the rest of the picture. With the great tools in Photoshop and Corel Painter, it shouldn't be any problem to blend them a little more. Layer property adjustments can do wonders.

Sure, the same 'hair' has been on cover models for decades. That's the problem. Why not switch it up a bit?

When anyone does talk about DCL, it is generally in a slightly mocking tone because of the cover model gimmick.
 

I just find it somewhat odd that a publishing company would also serve as what seems to be basically an agency for these cover models. The potential conflicts of interest are risky, IMO.

I understand cover models wanting to be paid for their visage, that's a no-brainer. But the author should not be footing the bill. I hate to use the dreaded "S" or "V" words, but when an author has to pay out of pocket for even part of the process of producing their book, the publisher can start to tow that line.

Being required to pay for my own cover art would be a red flag for me, as would paying for editing, printing, etc.

Another thing that is becoming more and more apparent - and I am not necessarily saying this is true of DCL, I have no personal knowledge - but it seems that the majority of small epubs opening these days are attempting to run on a shoestring budget. A great many open with insufficient startup capital, and with insufficient knowledge of the industry, or how to run a business in general.

Change and evolution can be good things, and learning as you go invariably happens in one way or another, but the success rate of e-publishers lately is not very high.

Sometimes one disgruntled author is merely that. Nine times out of ten, however, where there's smoke, there's fire.
 

I'm sorry but reading DCL's response to the query left me wondering even more on what they do for their authors.

They’re still working on "forming LLC" and acquiring a bank account? The first thing I would have done was those two things if I wanted to open a business. They've been open for 18 months and yet they are still in the process of acquiring the two most important things. How did they plan on paying the authors if they haven't thought of it for the past 18 months? Did they suddenly woke up one day and decide they will publish books and ask aspiring authors for their stories? What did they have when they opened their business? So many red flags here I can't even imagine any author (desperate maybe) to sign with them. It doesn’t take long to open bank account and form an LLC.

Giving reports of the sales to the authors doesn't mean they are getting paid. Authors should really ask themselves what this company is doing for them. It might be better to self publish your work and not have a middle man who is obviously not doing anything for you but promote their models.

The company doesn't print or format their stories. It’s better to go directly to Fictionwise. Why would the authors pay so much for a cover that doesn't go on print? Does this company advertise their work or do they have to pay for that as well? BookSurge charges a small fee and your book will be promoted in many places including Amazon and it's partners.

It also sounds like they are not paying their models since one of them had to suggest on how to get paid. I'm quite familiar with covers and as far as I know, it’s the publisher's who pays for that expense. They take it out of the percentage. I mean, what are they there for? Does this company even pay for their editors and artist?

If the company is making 400% in sales, where is that money? It’s certainly not going to their authors. It states in the epublisher list the company is in Australia. This will concern me. It won't be liable if someone sues it. Your authors are in the U.S.? It all sounds shady to me. I advise the authors to do their homework. One of them doesn't even know what the company does and the other sounds like she had the wrong contract. They also sound like they feel as if they owe the models for being nice. Good for you if you want to fork that much money into something that your publisher should be paying for. You have to be aware of company's who are taking advantage of people desperate to be published. This company sounds like one of them.

I'm posting anonymously due to what I've heard about the publisher's harassment practices. I'm just stating the obvious here and there's no need to identify myself. You should ask for your publisher's proof of credentials instead.
 

No company bank account?????? To any business person (and authors SHOULD be business people) this would be the mutha of all "red flags" and make you run far, far, far away. Who cares about their demanding cover models? Those should be the least of your worries. The chapter on "bank accounts" is covered is Business 101, folks, and a company who doesn't have an actual bank account when it starts is being run by people who shouldn't be in business in the first place. No one should be all shocked and bothered when royalties never arrive...it was inevitable.
 

...not to mention the authors are paying for all their mistakes. It doesn't even look like they have capital to pay those authors while they wait for Fictionwise to pay them. Who starts a business without a bank account, licensed and capital? Yes, you cover those in BUSINESS 101 class. It only took me a few weeks to get the license since my project required us to apply for it. I'm assuming the owner of this business doesn't have a college degree. Even a high school student would have opened a bank account if he/she opened a business. Funny, a child would have opened one to if they have a lemonade stand because their parents would have told them where to put their money.

Its not an acceptable excuse to say you're business is growing so fast that you failed to open a bank account and you can’t pay your authors until you get the money from Fictionwise! Their authors must really be that naive to fall for all their excuses. I’ve also read somewhere when the publisher is asked questions they get defensive and rude. Why would any of those authors put up with that when it’s them who bring in the money into that company? The company should be kissing your, excuse the language, ass since you stuck with them for 18 mo. without getting paid and they haven’t done anything for you. The person before my post is right...the models is the last of your worries. You need some business sense so this type of companies doesn’t take advantage of you. Does your contract say when you will get paid? If it says quarterly, then you can sue the publisher since they already broke the contract. Wait! You can't...its in Australia and it’s not registered! I would question your publisher if I were you. It’s not good business practice being rude in answering you. It’s bullying you into thinking you owe them when they really owe you instead. You shouldn’t have to pay for their mistakes, which in this case is A LOT and quite ridiculous. Adding 15 new authors should not hinder them from paying you. If anything, they should be able to pay you since they should be making more money. They shouldn’t sign that many authors if they can’t handle it. The only thing they were thinking was how much more money they could get from 15 new authors. If one of you could share some light as to what this publisher does for you since I’m really baffled by this. I would appreciate it. I just hate it when companies get away in this take advantage of people.
 

I will admit to being a bit dumbfounded at some of the response from DCL. You didn't have a bank account or form an LLC from the begining.

Honestly it sounds like someone got a wild hair one day and set up a website then started taking money from people. I will not speculate on that first author signed.

I know of at least one other epub about the same "age." Considerable planning went into opening the company for business. Including forming an LLC and getting a bank account before the first book ever hit anyones computer. The principals put in a lot of hard work to ensure that they are a success.
And no, I am not one of them.
 

Honey, I wonder if they know, signing under a company name that doesn't exist, using it in business dealings as a legal act, is fraud??? Whatever contracts they have under that name, however it's spelled out, IF they use the DCL moniker as they do on their site (the LLC), they are unenforceable contracts. Piffle.

That trumps everything else they just stated.
 

400% of nothing means nothing.
 

Honey, I wonder if they know, signing under a company name that doesn't exist, using it in business dealings as a legal act, is fraud???

You can be DBA, or as a partnership. You can even be doing it without formal registration anywhere. It's not really fraud, because there's no corporate veil to pierce, and all owners are personally, jointly, and severally liable for all acts of the "company."

Quite a few small businesses do not LLC or inc upon start up because of the costs, and because for tax/revenue purposes it isn't necessary, yet. They also may want to test the market before making the decision about what type of entity to form (S-Corp? C-Corp? LLC?) That's actually not uncommon. The important thing is that when it comes time to incorporate, you do it.

Now, the no bank account thing...that just blows my mind. How are authors being paid? ARE authors being paid?
 

I've heard, no, they are not. Which alarms me because I have a book with them!
 

"Due to the long and winded process of forming an LLC, we where not able to open a bank account as we did not have our Tax ID which would not be given until we had received our papers back. With that in mind, my business partner and I thought it might be better to hold of on releasing sales figures from Fictionwise until the bank account was open. Once opened we where then looking at releasing figures and making payments at the same time. As with all plans they do not always go accord to what we hoped."

Putting aside all the typos in that paragraph, what jumps out is they seem to be saying that for 18 months they have not released sales figures because they couldn't open a bank account. Um...what? So, not having released sales figures and not having a bank account...seems to me to be saying nope, they haven't paid anyone anything since they opened.

The hell? Is there any author willing to poke in and say, anonymously or not, whether DCL has paid them anything?

That's just craziness.
 

I am a writer with them and we are told our numbers quarterly and we get paid quarterly if our books have made money. There are some authors who have asked that payment be held until their commissions reach a certain amount. That is the authors' choice, though.
 

I think that if an author wants to get paid by a "real" check they have to wait.
 

I just saw their covers and I can't believe the authors would pay that much for those covers or anyone for that matter! The models look pissed, stunned or about to cry. That's probably how they got the company name. I never read any of their books so I don't know if their books are time travel but even the costumes of the models are not in the same time period. Sad to say, this is why ebooks have a bad rep of having low quality books because of covers like those.

That cover of a guy wearing a leather jacket and smiling. Did they just take someone's photo from a party and put it on top of a background. They must go around places, take a picture of a guy and use those for their covers without paying anything? I can't imagine them charging that much for that quality of photos. Those authors could just take a picture of a guy and use Photoshop to create their own covers. Why pay that much money for something you could do yourself? I could understand you paying that much money if the quality is great but come on, are they kidding me? One of the poster said the publisher is challenging someone to come up with a better cover. I bet my kid could do better. Sponge Bob is her specialty!

They’re venturing on doing covers and maintaining a "model" site when they can't even get their own publishing business legit. They also have a movie and jewelry company. WHAT? You have all these other companies and you can't come up with ONE bank account? Who is making all the decisions for this company? They have pages web pages for each of their models yet they don't have one for their authors. What exactly is their business? I'm confused! It doesn't sound like their authors have a clue and if they ask questions the publisher gets rude with them.
 

Basically the clients here are the authors forking over hundred of dollars for model photos rather than readers buying books. That is how they are staying afloat.
 

I heard the only requirement they have for an author is to have a castle in their stories. They won't accept you if you don't. That makes a lot of sense. I could write a story of 4 aliens who landed on White Castle and they will accept my story? I could easily call myself a published author then? How cool is that?
 

I am also a new author with DCL and wanted to say that I am very pleased with the company so far. Having been published and/or contracted with seven other houses, I can tell you they are more professional, helpful, accessible and approachable than others.

If I have a problem, question or request, I am confident I can get a hold of someone and get a quick reply or solution with no fear of being verbally abused or ignored. Sadly that is NOT the case with some other publishers. I have purchased books from them and have never had a problem receiving the link or downloading the books. This is NOT the case with some other publishers. If the house has growing pains, they are so minimal I have yet to notice or be affected them. This is NOT the case with some other publishers. They let me have total say in every aspect of my cover and will work with me until I am satisfied with it. This is SO NOT the case with some other publishers. They promote my release and actively look for more ways in which to do so. Again, this is NOT the case with some other publishers.

As far as the models go…I love my cover. I get tons of compliments on it and yes, I believe Andrei’s picture on my cover is helping me sell books.

I didn’t pay anything for it.
 

Granted that these people have broken two sacred trusts (always pay your authors and never charge them for covers), has anyone determined whether they have addressed these issues at DCL? Has the company responded to these concerns? If they did not have the knowledge to obtain their LLC and EIN prior to publishing, perhaps they did not realize what a serious error it was to do the other two things. Do they seem amenable to change? This would seem to be an important part of clarifying whether their publishing is a "rip-off" or just the result of inexperience. The end result, of course, can be the same--insolvency--but it would be nice to give them a chance to defend themselves.
 

You cannot write a story about 4 aliens landing on a White Castle. They do have standards as to what constitutes a decent story (as I am willing to bet at least one of the negative posters here already knows.)

They do primarily ask for stories that have a castle or manor house in them - usually historical, though not always. It's a niche, what's wrong with that? That is there thing, but they don't use that as an excuse to print garbage.
 

By the time they wrote the response above authors had already raised objections and I think the "concerns" in bold that I sent to them are obviously also suggesting this. That and... they are in the business of publishing. They should know or find out before taking actions as a publisher. I know it is a learning curve but hope to see a 180 on the non-payment and charging for cover art very soon.
 

But they do pay their authors. I received my quarterly about 2 weeks ago and my Fictionwise share yesterday.
 

This is all rather hard to follow as Staurt, above, says fictionwise payments are/were not being made.
 

I am just wondering why anyone cares what DCL does or does not do and why someone was concerned because it sure sounded like someone was envious or something to take on DCL. Which by the way has most of their authors in other houses and still REMAIN with DCL and why is that? There must be a good one because they keep writing stories for them and they are selling pretty well too.

Now with artistic book covers and book videos authors are getting even more recognition for DCL and of course the models are a big part of it. And to be precise who cares who pays for what since the deal is with the author and the publisher but if an author wants an exclusive with a model they may go to that person and request a shoot or shots for something specific and of course pay that model for their work. Makes sense to me.

As you can see many of the authors that are at DCL have commented here and not always remained anonymous because they want to be known for their connection with DCL. And by the way you have Mr. Romance's and Plagygirl's Man of the Year and more titles for many of the DCL Lords or cover models. Come on people tell me who else can have those people on the covers and want to be associated with this company. The models know a good thing too so they stick with DCL. So come to RT and see how it goes this year especially with many new authors and more models and female ones at that now too so DCL does not just have Lords anymore but Lords and Ladies on their covers and are proud of it.

And as a newer E-publisher tell me how many have already died and gone to bankruptcy but DCL never has and as for an LLC that is as some state something done later after you decide which way to go and DCL always pays and informs their authors of how much in sales they have made every quarter.

Stop being so petty and mean look to your own writing and publishers and beware more of the others do not go belly up as DCL is not likely to since they started off small but are definitely going places and getting recognized and being awarded for their books, covers and videos.

Hope you can all now forget this and get on with your own lives and stop placing blame where many of you have no idea on the real issues. Thank you all you DCL supporters and yes all the authors on here that commented like it so that should tell you something.
 

We are discussing this epublisher because this is a blog for discussing epublishers, and because the pratices of this epublisher are questionable.
 

I was paid for my anthology from DCL.
 

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
 

Emily, all I know is I received an email from Stuart letting me know my royalties total from Fictionwise sales. Later that day, I received a paypal notice that the monies were available on my account.
 

Perhaps the problems in that area have been resolved. That would be good news. I must say my hope is that discussion would contribute to publishers developing their approach to the benefit of authors. That is one reason to keep the conversation as unemotional and focus on the facts we each have access to. I appreciate your input.
 

Why would you delete my comment? It wasn't bad, it wasn't really bashing anyone.
 

Please see the policy in the top post. Personal insults in that post were directed to authors who brought their concerns to groups like this one--and to those like myself who actively discuss presses with dubious practises.
 

I hope now you can let it go from Smoke to Fire back to not questionable since many of the DCL authors on here have stated they get their quarterly statements and have been getting paid and recently too which makes sense if the last quarter was not too long ago. And besides as Stuart did mention they were working on getting it all done in a timely fashion so maybe the time has come to let it all die and know that DCL does pay and the newness of setting up some of the new things implemented are now resolved and all the authors get their money and statements. So can we let it die now on a positive note please.

Besides the authors have spoken and they are the only ones that know for fact what is real and imagined so we know for fact now they are paid and have been recently so all is well with DCL right now and I hope far into the future. Someone concerned with bashing where it never should have really gone and to this extent. Thanks.
 

I never placed DCL in the not recommended category and do not currently plan to. I do plan to keep the discussion free of insults but this is a new, not a retrospective, policy. I generally avoid limiting discussion. I also currently do not check posts before they go live so it may take up to 24-hours for me to respond to new material.

If paying for covers with models did become a policy, or non-payment issue resurfaced I would place then as not recommended. Fees and non-payment are two main reasons for employing this category.
 

I am just wondering why anyone cares what DCL does or does not do and why someone was concerned because it sure sounded like someone was envious or something to take on DCL. Which by the way has most of their authors in other houses and still REMAIN with DCL and why is that? There must be a good one because they keep writing stories for them and they are selling pretty well too.

Well, authors and those in the e-publishing/small press industry do and should care. First, if they are not treating their authors properly in whatever manner, prospective authors deserve to be warned of that. Second, it reflects poorly upon the industry as a whole.


Now with artistic book covers and book videos authors are getting even more recognition for DCL and of course the models are a big part of it. And to be precise who cares who pays for what since the deal is with the author and the publisher but if an author wants an exclusive with a model they may go to that person and request a shoot or shots for something specific and of course pay that model for their work. Makes sense to me.

Doesn't to me. As I stated before, it's like requiring authors to pay for their in-house editing, or making them pay for the publisher's website overhead. When an author is required to pay for any part of the production of their own book, the publisher starts to tow the subsidy/vanity line. Now, some authors have no problem with that. I have no problem with the concept itself, but a duck should be called a duck.

And again I'll mention the concerns of conflict of interest. Are they a model agency or a publisher? IMO, it's unwise to be both.

As for the covers and videos getting recognition, from my opinionated spot, plugged into this industry, it's not been all, or even mostly, positive recognition. It doesn't matter if you've got Brad Pitt on the cover, if the cover's poorly done.

As you can see many of the authors that are at DCL have commented here and not always remained anonymous because they want to be known for their connection with DCL. And by the way you have Mr. Romance's and Plagygirl's Man of the Year and more titles for many of the DCL Lords or cover models.

If I were getting $300 per cover from the author, I'd stick around too.

And as a newer E-publisher tell me how many have already died and gone to bankruptcy but DCL never has...

Yet. If they have no bank account, haven't formed a legitimate business entity after 18 months, and aren't paying their authors, they may be on the way.

I have had several people email me privately about DCL, after seeing my non-anonymous comments here. None have been positive. I've also been told that the contract refers to DCL, LLC. Stuart himself stated the company is not an LLC. Furthermore, the cursory research I have done on Australian business law doesn't seem to state that LLC's are even a viable business form in Australia. (You've got partnerships, DBAs, sole proprietorships, corporations, and proprietary companies).

Four separate people have told me they've not been paid by DCL.

I am weighing in from an objective standpoint. I'm not a DCL author. I call it like I see it.

Hope you can all now forget this and get on with your own lives and stop placing blame where many of you have no idea on the real issues.

Isn't that the point of this discussion? To discover the real issues? To provide people with the ability to make well-informed choices about where they submit their work?

I'm not anti-DCL. I hope they rectify the concerns some authors have voiced, and they do well. I never want to see a publisher fail. But I don't think it's malicious or petty to invite an honest, open discussion about things such as this.
 

Oh, and to add before anyone else reams me for it, no, I don't know Australian law. Analyzing it from an American law background is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

Anyone better versed in it than I is more than welcome to correct me.

I did spend about an hour last night browsing the Australian Government's business formation website doing some cursory research, and earlier today I shot an email off to one of my professors (who is, ironically enough, Australian) and asked for a quick and dirty rundown. Not with any malicious intent, but my academic curiosity is piqued. (And just yesterday I was asking myself what the heck I took this International Business Law course for...!)

KJ
 

I don't know about anyone else, but it is a personal red flag of epic proportions when a company or its cheering section start suggesting that asking questions about a company = jealousy. This isn't third grade, I do not want your piece of chocolate cake and no one here is questioning DCL's practices because we're jealous.

But suggesting it certainly does flare up my personal flags. Neon ones, even. We're asking because writers deserve to know that there are questions about this company, so those writers can make an informed decision when it comes time to submit their work. That's all, period. Emily and I believe everyone who frequents this blog want the same thing. The more you know...
 

Um, that should read: Emily, and I believe everyone who frequents this blog, want the same thing.

Because the way it was sounded off. Commas will be the death of me!
 

I feel the same way, Fae. I am SOO not jealous of the grainy, blurry, badly Photo-shopped covers that grace the DCL covers. My own covers are award-winning and do not feature stoned, stunned, sad, mad, or goofy (ie, in DCL talk, "moody") cover models. Nor do I want them too. My publisher is a model in brand-new epublishers. For over a year, all business legalities were addressed and taken care of. Contracts were professionally written, and bank accounts started. It is an LLC. We are legal, one hundred percent.

I am not jealous of DCl in any way, nor am I scared to post my real name. I refrain from doing so out of respect for my friends and publishers. I have known friends who write for DCL, and I don't want them targeted by the bragging self-righteousness that has overtaken the DCL pro loop (so I've heard from members of said loop). Apparently a lot of people are living in a world of denial about the fact that DCL is heralded as something of a joke (as are cover models) to those who are truly serious about being published. At least, those who have heard of DCL and are not affiliated with it in some way.

I completely agree that the publisher seems to be an agency for the models. There are no author sites, and reports say that Stuart is "slowly" creating author pages in between his dealings with the models and their sections. To me, it would seem like the authors would be a top priority, as has been echoed in many other posts here.

I have to agree, also, with the person who posted about the mullet man on the cover of a book. Ew. Seriously. That's not attractive to the general public. The only people who DO find it attractive are the authors (and probably only because they are too polite to speak up) and model-obsessed middle-aged women. Anybody under the age of 30 find that cover compelling? The whole cover screams horrible blind date. I can practically hear that guy spouting off corny offensive pick up lines and making lots of innuendos about his groin. Oh, and maybe Barry White singing in the background, or possibly some bad porn music. Boom-chicka-wow-wow.

One more time, for the record. I'm NOT jealous. I'm mad. Covers like that, and many others put out by DCL give ebooks a bad rep. It casts a bad light on the stories inside the covers. The covers are disappointing. DCL would gain much more notable attention if the covers were done with a bit more skill and a lot less emphasis on pimping the model du jour.
 

an llc number with tax ID doesn't take that long to get. You can apply online. The longest time it takes is around 6 weeks,but I got my tax Id number in less than 4... The IRS is no one to mess around with. Frankly I don't know how you take IN money if you don't have your LLC and tax ID in place. I can't even go to a parts supplier or trade show without those in hand, I can not IMAGINE that fictionwise would be that lax, because THEY don't want to draw the attention of the IRS either... smells like bs to me... at least that part of it... I don't have an opinion on the rest of it, one way or another.
 

It is my understanding that DCL operates in Australia and Ihio, so not necessarily under Australian law.
 

They are opening the tax ID in Ohio.

Honestly, we are new but that doesn't mean the quality of our books suffers. We do have some really good covers, some great writers, and a management team trying to work things out and who are accessible. If not everyone likes us, well, not everyone likes EC, Loose-Id, Samhain, Torquere.... We'll keep putting out works, even with nay-sayers.
 

Oops, yes, I meant Ohio. Spot the non-American ;)
 

It is my understanding that DCL operates in Australia and Ohio, so not necessarily under Australian law.

Ooooh. Well now, that's a horse of a different color.
 

Emily,
I thought you might want to know that any and every private email sent to Pam at DCl is being released--and mocked--by the DCL Pro group. I wasn't sure if you gave her permission to do this, but it didn't seem very fair, since you ARE trying to be fair here.
 

Sorry, should read, released TO the DCL Pro group, not 'by'.
 

Thanks. I requested that those messages be deleted from that loop and was told they would be. You could say I was not terribly impressed.

I still haven't received a clear reply on whether author will need to pay for a human figure cover, or why Pamela was so convinced I was deleting comments from DCL supporters.

I remain interested in answers to both of those questions.
 

Not everyone is mocking, thank you. I don't like it when either side of an arguement gets nasty but that could be why things I say get ignored...

However, the emails primary addressees were both Emily and the DCL pro list. It isn't as though Pam was trying to keep it a secret from Emily that the emails were being posted.
 

Actually, no. Pamela cced some of her email to the list. I deliberately sent all of my to her addy only.
 

I've got to sleep now and work most of tomorrow. So everyone play nice while I'm away.
 

Well that Pamela women is the reason people here doesn't want to say their names. I heard she's the one that's been harassing people if things doesn't go her way. It just shows from your request how immature they are. Saying people are just jealous for stating the obvious and hopefully helping new authors is just how the people at DCL thinks. Well, if they are not open to reason and help (opening their eyes) then that's their problem. Deal with it. We want to help new authors to not fall for the same garbage a lot of authors go through. Furthermore, your publisher probably wouldn't have paid you now if the payment issue didn't show up in this blog! So get down on your high horse and try to see what the people are saying here. You could learn a lot of information that YOUR PUBLISHER never knew and probably just starting to do for you now. SHHHHSSHHH!! You probably run those authors out of DCL because they raised a flag that they weren't paid. If you are so satisfied with not getting paid then that's your pain. The rest of the authors who think logically do and so will future authors.
 

*sigh* if we must... LOL. Thanks for letting us vent, rant, and rave, Emily!
 

"Furthermore, your publisher probably wouldn't have paid you now if the payment issue didn't show up in this blog! So get down on your high horse and try to see what the people are saying here."

I have been getting paid quarterly. This has never been an issue for me, as I have tried stating repeatedly. So how about you stop beating a dead horse. You will have to forgive me for trying to stand up for my pub. I don't care if you like my loyalty or not.
 

In defense of this blog and Emily, we need to have more discussions with both sides giving pros and cons.
I'm beginning to feel that becoming epublished is like playing the lottery. You never know what you're going to get until you scratch off your card.
There are some in the business who are willing to invest the time, hard work and money that it takes to be a good publisher. Others get into without a clue as to what they're doing and the then the authors get hung out to dry.
We need blogs like this one and others where writers can speak up—albeit anonymously—about problems they've encountered. Then other writers can weigh the pros and cons and know what they might be getting into before they submit the first manuscript.
 

Didn't Stuart (part owner of DCL) admitted to not paying authors yet? So how is it that one is saying she is getting paid every quarter and the other authors say they haven't? The authors sounds like they all have a different contracts which is probably not unusual. Though, why are some authors getting paid and the other not? If the authors ask and raise a question they get get called as trouble makers? It's very clear there are a lot of issues in that company that authors need to know how each authors are being treated differently. I guess if you don't ask questions and complain you get paid. This is the reason why this blog should go on. To let other authors know what they have to deal with out there and be smart with their decisions.
 

I am just curious-not an publisher or author. Just a reader. It seems to me that the owner of this blog is being blasted and/ or vilified for trying to find out information for aspiring writers. If the DCL people don't like her analysis of her research they should maybe look into her reasons for her decisions. My whole point is don't hate the messenger.
Seems to me there might be some valid concerns.
 

As a reader, not a writer. I can not imagine putting up with someone playing fast and loose with money that I made. Someone who gave me these kinds of bs stories would very quickly be on my "do not do business with"...

In the future, when this ship goes down(as they seem to regularly as the unprofessional ones inevitably fail). I wouldn't expect a lot of sympathy about rights being tied up, or final checks getting "lost in the mail".... Girls (or guys) WISE UP!!! For Chrissake, if you want to be treated like the professionals you are, don't do business with someone who can't even be bothered to get ONLINE and get an LLC and tax ID number (its really easy, I did it and I am no genius)..

That stuff is just basic, and if someone can't get the basics right, what hope do you have against creative accounting, losing checks, and everything else you have to protect yourself against? Seriously... catch the clue..
 

OK enough already people, sheesh! Share the information you have but do you have to be so mean? Even P&E doesn't carry things this far. They state the facts and that's that. They don't keep beating a dead horse. Lets all just play nice, write some stories, sell our books and make some money, okay?
 

LETS BE PROFESSIONALS HERE PEOPLE
 

Why not go with people like Ocean Mist Press who went out of business and is back in for some reason but all the authors are NOT GETTING PAID a cent for their books ... that is more of a real issue here. Not lambasting a company still working everything out as I am sure many other e-publushers have tried and failed at least DCL is still thriving and growing so you know their authors are getting paid besides which do we know if any of the authors supposedly not being paid sold any books maybe their books are not that good hence no real payback yet. I say go for those publishers that have really screwed the authors and are not giving back their rights to their books so they can find other houses to publish with. THOSE ARE WHO YOU NEED TO ADDRESS right now since it seems a few new ones just went belly up recently and left many authors yelling crying foul ball with no revenue at all and no rights either. PLEASE address that instead of whipping this dead horse as someone said. Deal with real issues not supposed ones that we now have confirmation of many of their authors being paid and on time.
 

"Why not go with people like Ocean Mist Press who went out of business and is back in for some reason but all the authors are NOT GETTING PAID a cent for their books ... that is more of a real issue here."

I believe there is a post about Ocean Mist Press on this blog and those who wish to discuss their practices can certainly go there, not being paid for your hard work by any publisher is horrendous. However, these posters are discussing this particular publisher and their practices which seem, at least from the outside looking in, to be quite shady.

After reading the original post and all of the responses I would have serious reservations about handing over my grocery list let alone the MS I worked so hard on to these people if I were a serious writer.

And since someone mentioned P&E ALL authors should check them out especially their warnings which seem to fit this particular publisher to a tee.
 

Bottom line: his thread, like all other threads on the blog, will remain open indefinitely. Discussion will continue, by defintion, as long as people keep posting.
 

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
 

I am very sorry but I am going to have to go back and delete a few posts according to the one rule I am trying to enforce here, insults applied to specific people. I hope you understand and can repost with this in mind. I know this is a new thing and you might not be aware of it yet but please limit comment to what people *do* not the kind of person you/someone else might think they are.
 

Why don't you people stop with the dcl business and discuss PUBLISHAMERICA? Now there's a real issue for authors who fall into that trap.
 

1) Because this is a blog specifically about erotica and romance epublishers, defined as those whose primary business is in one of those genres and that format.

2) Because it's a free internet and people can discuss what they want. I suspect shouting repeatedly at them to stop might not actually help take an issue off the boil?
 

If people want to remain blind, thats fine. They can stay that way but a lot of people who read this blog should be informed. There are a lot of good information here that could show them and other potential authors what a publisher should be doing for their authors. The DCL authors are admitting they pay for their book cover and happy do so. That is not the point we are making here. We are saying your publisher should be paying for those covers. What do you need DCL for? Because they got you in contact with the models for your cover? Does that even makes sense? Why should you have to contact the model when your publisher should be taking care of that cover for you? Now you feel like you owe them? Good for you that you are getting paid but let the ones that are not getting paid have their say. Why would they complain about not getting paid if they see their "sales report" and it clearly shows people did buy their books and they are not getting paid? I am glad those authors who voiced out their discontent can go somewhere to let people know about shady companies they are dealing with. Take a step back and think what you say. This is a public blog and anyone who wishes to say how they feel should be able to say it. You are not happy because not all of it is a shining positive review of your pub? Well, welcome to reality! Learn from it but not curse at it. You might learn new things here.

Why do you keep redirecting the blog to go to another publisher? Emily keeps stating here that this is specific to DCL practices and hopefully will help a potential author make wise decisions. It sounds like the only thing DCL has done for you is take your story and published it through a third party vendor which is Fictionwise. They have time to talk and chat with you since it sounds like they don't do much except take your work (I don't even know if they really edit your work) and say they published it. Have you read P&B's list? I doubt you would have signed with your publisher if you read it.
 

My apologies, Emily, for getting snarky. I got a bit rankled by Anon 11:53.

Not lambasting a company still working everything out as I am sure many other e-publushers have tried and failed at least DCL is still thriving and growing so you know their authors are getting paid besides which do we know if any of the authors supposedly not being paid sold any books maybe their books are not that good hence no real payback yet. ...Deal with real issues not supposed ones that we now have confirmation of many of their authors being paid and on time.

To still be "figuring things out" 18 months in, at least to the extent of not having Tax IDs, etc. is unacceptable. It's laziness or incompetence or both.

I haven't seen many people claiming to be paid correctly and on time. One person, a few anon comments (that could have all been the same person) and that was it. Kayleigh said she's gotten emails from authors who haven't been paid. She's got no personal stake in this so I believe her.

I've also heard that the DCL authors who are dissatisfied are afraid of speaking up because of retaliation from DCL's owner. That doesn't sound like a reputable publisher on the up and up to me.
 

I am just a reader and I have no part of anyone's fight here . I read it that this a blog started to help authors and prevent them from being taken advantage of by e publishers that are not what they should be. I read many different genre in e book and print from all kinds of publishers. My experience with DCL has been favorable. If I have any problems they are corrected within a few min. I have had much more trouble with other e companies. The authors that I have read from DCL have all been good.
some of them have print contracts also. I have a personal friend that is one of the models so nastily made fun of here . That is not a professional thing to do. His image sent a book into the best selling print book list a year ago. If he is such a joke why did he help that author to the best selling list when her other books didn't go there? Every author wants to be published and read with whatever company they can sign with.They deserve to be paid for their work. Models are people with feelings too. That is their work. They should be paid for it. I have seen all kinds of covers from everywhere. You get what you pay for. Most publishers don't allow the author any say on what goes on their books. If that is what you want fine. If you want a say in what represents your work then expect to have to pay the models fee. Whitch sure isn't $300.
try less than half that. The fee isn't set by DCL and the models aren't signed exclusively to them. Also just remember what age group is buying your books before you throw stones at middle aged women. That was a very non professional blow too. Keep this on the real reason that this blog was formed.
 

Wow and holy hell.

So I dropped out of bloglandia for a while...and I'm reading this and I'm stunned. Just. Stunned.

The email from the owner should have been sent to an editor. The sort/sought thing is seriously killing me. Especially when you were given permission to share verbatim. (and the fact your emails were being shared WITHOUT that permission? Oh I think I'm pissed on your behalf on that one.)

From what I've read here it sounds like DCL has the interests of their Cover Models in mind over those of their authors. (I'm not about to go drop a story in a castle to go undercover for you. Sorry!)

Isn't Samhain 18 months old, too? Just...for comparative purposes, not to be snide. Much.
 

Hi, I came cross your blog by chance and have been following it with interest for a day or two. It got my attention due to the number of replies and some of the comments that have been bandied about and would like to add my own opinion /views.

But, firstly let me say that I am not a publisher or writer so my views should, I hope, be seen as impartial and not seen as taking once side or the other.

Before I decided to post to this blog, I did some research. I visited several well known publishers and a selection of others (not so well known by the look of where their page showed up on Google). I also visited the website in question (DCL).


One of your first comments took my eye straight away;

None of those skanky idiots is worth the 250-300$ a PICTURE, especially when the company is built around them.

Does ‘Not a DCL fan’ actually know the cost of buying a photograph from a Stock site these days? I myself wasn’t sure, so I took a look around and found that for a photo of a male in various poses can range anywhere from a few dollars to several hundred dollars. Taking that into account, their prices seem relatively cheap. My view only

Do you have any proof that the company is built around the models shown on their site? Just because they have part of their website set aside for each model does not prove anything.

Dude, those covers look like, well, bad ebook covers. I guess some people's standards are very different. – ANON

Anon, as with all things artistic (Books, music, art work, paintings and so on) they are subjective and open to interpretation. What one person sees as a master piece the other as a few lines of paint?

I had a look at their covers and those on other sites and found them to be no better or worse. In some instances DCL’s covers seemed quite artistic and portrayed the theme of the book quite well ( my view). And yes, one or two of their covers could have had a bit more thought go into them but if the author was happy with it…

They’re still working on "forming LLC" and acquiring a bank account? The first thing I would have done was those two things if I wanted to open a business. They've been open for 18 months and yet they are still in the process of acquiring the two most important things. How did they plan on paying the authors if they haven't thought of it for the past 18 months? Did they suddenly woke up one day and decide they will publish books and ask aspiring authors for their stories? What did they have when they opened their business? So many red flags here I can't even imagine any author (desperate maybe) to sign with them. It doesn’t take long to open bank account and form an LLC.

This point stood out as a red flag to me as well. I saw the owner’s response to this question and it looks like he has tried to answer the concern raised but his response may have been a little unclear and open for further clarification.

Upon reading further down I found a reply by the web host that the business is based in Australia and the USA. Does anyone here know the legalities of starting up and registering a business in Australia? How long does it take? What would be the benefits of registering in Australia compared to the USA and vice a versa?

As one of your posters noted, “You can be DBA, or as a partnership. You can even be doing it without formal registration anywhere. It's not really fraud, because there's no corporate veil to pierce, and all owners are personally, jointly, and severally liable for all acts of the "company."

Quite a few small businesses do not LLC or inc upon start up because of the costs, and because for tax/revenue purposes it isn't necessary, yet. They also may want to test the market before making the decision about what type of entity to form (S-Corp? C-Corp? LLC?) That's actually not uncommon. The important thing is that when it comes time to incorporate, you do it.”


Has any one gone back to Stuart on this? Have they applied for their LLC paperwork and TAX ID as suggested in his response? What stage is it at?

The company doesn't print or format their stories. It’s better to go directly to Fictionwise

How many small epublishers actual print their books? I thought that was the idea behind being an epublisher, not having to print books?

Some of your comments mention that if DCL are selling books why sell on Fictionwise? I checked Fictionwise and found that a lot of other publishing houses do the exact same thing and not only at Fictionwise. So why slate them for doing something that seems the norm with publishing houses.

They’re venturing on doing covers and maintaining a "model" site when they can't even get their own publishing business legit. They also have a movie and jewelry company. WHAT? You have all these other companies and you can't come up with ONE bank account? Who is making all the decisions for this company? They have pages web pages for each of their models yet they don't have one for their authors. What exactly is their business? I'm confused!

Does anyone here know if the businesses mentioned in this post (Movie and Jewellery) where started at the same time or brought over by the founders of DCL? What is wrong with combining all these under one umbrella? A lot of business have several satellite companies and separate bank accounts.

This post also mentions again about getting the publishing business legit. I make the same point as before. Has anyone actually gone back to DCL to ascertain at what stage they are at and if they have applied for the required paperwork to legitimise the business? If not, how can you all keep commenting on this point if you do not have the necessary information to hand?

They have pages web pages for each of their models yet they don't have one for their authors.

I am not sure what you mean here? I visited their website and found pages dedicated to both authors and models alike. Why is this a issue? Weren’t the original queries about payments, royalty figures and low book sales?

Basically the clients here are the authors forking over hundred of dollars for model photos rather than readers buying books. That is how they are staying afloat.

The above post is treading on very dangerous ground. Do you have any proof that the authors are forking over what you say? I believe several of DCL’s author’s have replied advising that they are not. Stuart, in his response has mentioned that this was an idea brought up by the models and is currently being discussed with the authors and models alike.

So until someone actually goes back to them and finds out if this revenue generating avenue is going to proceed, how can you pass judgement on this particular point?

This is all rather hard to follow as Stuart, above, says Fictionwise payments are/were not being made. (Comment by your web host)/ How are authors being paid? ARE authors being paid? (Separate Post)
Good point! But by the look of the replies from DCL authors, who have posted on this blog, they have always been paid but they had some trouble with Fictionwise which seems to have been rectified. Another author posted that they are paid via payapl with others waiting un